Season 1 episode 9 transcription
If you remember, in episode 8 of No Root, No Fruit, all about Doc Watson, I began by showing you the difference between flat picking and fingerpicking the guitar. For this episode, all about the Nitty Gritty Dirt band and the the country music royalty of 1971, I thought it might help to start with a quick banjo lesson—the difference between 3 finger, Scruggs style banjo—heard mostly in bluegrass music, and the frailing, or clawhammer style with it’s roots in Africa and heard mostly in old timey mountain music. Here’s the familiar, Cripple Creek, done in the clawhammer or failing style by last episodes special guest, Joel Mabus…
Now here’s the same tune performed by the man who invented the three finger bluegrass style of banjo pickin, Earl Scruggs…
So, how are these styles different. For one, In Scruggs style banjo, the strings are plucked up by the index and middle fingers of the picking hand and the notes roll out in mostly single note patterns. The thumb mostly concentrates on the 5th drone string. Listen for this as Eric Wiesburg and Deliverance 3 finger pick the popular fiddle tune, the Eighth Of January…
Mostly single notes that roll out in a pattern. Now imagine your picking hand as a claw. Rather than pluck up on the strings the claw comes down hammering out the melody with the nail of either your middle or index finger while the rest of you fingers brush the strings in rhythm. Think Bum Diddy bum Diddy bum. The thumb is used, mostly, to play the high 5th drone string. Let’s listen to Allison De Groot, along with her fiddle playing musical partner Tatiana Hargreaves, play the same tune…
Bum Diddy bum Diddy bum…clawhammer style provides both melody and, taking advantage of hammering down on the drum of the banjo, the rhythm. It is most often played without the aid of picks and with a banjo that has an open back, rather than a resonator like you find on almost al bluegrass style instruments. Clawhammer style is meant to be muted, where bluegrass style is meant to ring out loud…
That’s Noam Pikelny playing Big Sandy River in that bluegrass style. Here’s just a taste of Brad Kolodner frailing a tune called Duck Pin along with his bandmates, Charm City Junction.
Now all of this relates to The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band’s 1972, triple album release, Will the Circle Be Unbroken, because the whole concept of the sessions was about merging the old style with the new. The guests on these sessions were heroes to this young group of players—the songs and tunes were staples, if not on the recordings, certainly in the informal jam sessions that accompany every tour. The Dirt band had released 6 albums by the time Circle came out in October of 1972—5 studio records and one live—having chart success early on with the song Buy For Me the Rain from their first, self titled album released in 1967.
They didn’t chart again until the release of Uncle Charlie & His Dog Teddy in September of 1970. It was this album that led, indirectly, to the idea that became Will the Circle Be Unbroken. The line-up at the time included, Les Thompson, Jimmie Fadden, Jeff Hanna, Jimmy Ibbotsun, and John McEuen. Here’s multi-instrumentalist John McEuen talking about how the Circle album came to be. My thanks to Cleveland area Radio host and producer Jim Blum for the use of this interview he did with John in 2012.
John McEuen:
Well, it was a strange enterprise. The dirt Band had the strength of having three hit records in the top 20: House On Pooh Corner. Some Of Shelly's Blues and Mr. Bojangles. That was when Earl Scruggs came to see us one night. I'm forever proud of the fact that when I asked him why he came to see us, he said, he said to me, ‘I wanted to meet the boy that played Randy Lynn Rag the way I intended to.’ And it was like, I can still remember that. Like it was a couple weeks ago, you know, but sure. Yeah, he was a nice guy…
But it was a year later that I asked him if he'd record with the band, and he said yes, I'd be proud to. And then Doc Watson a week after that. It all came together really quick. And if Jeff hadn't picked the right songs to record that led up to that, so that the kids of those people could play the parents, the music of this new band that was on the charts back in 71. These people, they were at the peak, but they'd been cast aside by Nashville. As a matter of fact, after our interview with Roy Acuff prior to recording, the Nashville Tennessean had got wind that we were in town to record with Acuff and Travis and maybell. And they said in the newspaper in Nashville, the week before the recording, the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band is in town to record, which was big news for Nashville. A west coast group that has records on pop radio is coming to Nashville to record. And their comment was, why are they recording with a bunch of old dinosaurs? No, they didn't see it. They didn't, as a matter of fact, I told the story. Uh, I've told the story before. Seeing Mabelle Carter for the first time at the Grand Ole Opry, before the Dirt Band started, my brother and I made our way to Nashville. And I looked in the back window just in time to see Lester Flatt introduce Mabelle. ‘Earl, let's bring out mama Mabelle Carter to do the Wildwood flower.
And Earl told me, let's skip ahead to a few years after the circle album. and I'm talking to Earl about that incident and he said, ‘Yeah, we did this album with Maybelle called the Tribute To the Carter Family because the only job she could get in Nashville in the previous five years was as a nurse at Nashville General Hospital.
She couldn't get a music job, a record deal. And I thought Maybelle was just being nice. When the Circle album first turned gold, it took a couple years, I took a copy of the gold record out to her place to give to her and she said, ‘well, I never thought that many people even heard those old songs.’ She actually meant it. She didn't realize that every guitar player of the era learned Wildwood Flower, you know, just like they would learn a Ventures song or something.
It was Earl’s sons Randy and Gary, as well as Doc’s son Merle who were familiar with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, and that helped convince Scruggs and Watson to start the ball rolling. By day one of the recording sessions, the list of guests included, Earl and Randy, Doc, Mother Maybell as well as Roy Acuff, Merle Travis, Jimmy Martin, Vassar Clemets, Norman Blake, Pete (Brother Oswald) Kirby, and Jr. Huskey on bass. They still need to pitch the idea to the record company. Here’s how John McEuen remembers it from that same interview…
John McEuen:
I asked Earl if he'd record, 10 days later, Doc, and then Bill and I talked Merle Travis and Earl said he could maybe get Maybelle and Louise, his wife helped. And so we're about three and a half weeks into it. We had to have a meeting with the record company to see if they'd put up the money. We did our pitch and the president of the label said ‘I don't know if I'm gonna sell 10 of these, but you guys, I don't know. You're so much into it. Okay. I'll put up the money. He put up, uh, gave us a budget of $22,000. So for 22 Gs in 1971, it paid for studio time, musicians, hotels, food, everything. And, uh, we recorded for six days. Usually not more than four or five hours throughout the day, maybe three hours between 11 and two and then hanging out, and then somebody would show up no overdubs, because everything was two track. I mean, once you got a song laid down in two track you were done—no mixing, no generation loss, none of the problems of mixing and generation loss and things of that nature that can happen in multitrack.
So six days, 3 maybe four hours a day of actual recording—so in less than 24 hours this group of musicians—half under 30 years old and half over 50, laid down 38 tracks that continue to enlighten and inspire 50 years later. Did they have to do several takes for each song? Here’s John McEuen’s answer…
John McEuen
Not usually, usually, um, as Acuff says on the album…
You don't go to the dentist office and have him go, ‘well, let me go see if I can get the right tooth or let me see if I can…You know, the pilot doesn't come on
and say, ‘yeah, we're gonna be in Pittsburgh and oh no, no. It's, uh, it's it's Philadelphia. Everybody else that does stuff has to know what they're doing usually. So why record a song that you don't know or that you don't think is gonna go down right?
With $22,000 dollars in hand, the hippy band from the West Coast meet up with a mix of veteran country & bluegrass performers, as well as some hot Nashville session players to create a record that would help ignite some, what appeared to be, declining careers and introduce a whole new younger audience to the best of what folk, roots and Americana music had to offer at the time. I believe this track, with two banjo players from two different generations playing two different styles at the same time says it all. On Soldier’s Joy, John Mceuen is flailing the banjo while Earl Scruggs plays the 3 finger style he pioneered. For me, it’s the bridge that made this record so impactful.
Will the Circle Be Unbroken begins with nostalgia and, about an hour and forty-five minutes later, closes with the baton being handed over to the next generation of pickers. The Nostalgia takes the form of the Grand Ole Opry Song written by Hylo Brown and led by Jimmy Martin
Jimmy Martin brought his ultra high singing voice to Bill Monroe in 1949 and their combination of voices, Monroe singing tenor and Martin often singing above that, became, what many believe to be, the birth of the high lonesome sound of bluegrass. He sang with Monroe throughout the early 1950’s before starting his own band in 1955. Jimmy Martin was one of the early heroes of a young John McEuen. His lead vocal is featured prominently on the Circle album. You just heard Grand Ole Opry Song, here’s a couple of more led by Jimmy Martin. Sunny Side Of the Mountain…
Here’s Jimmy Martin on a tune he wrote with Paul Williams, My Walkin Shoes
Jimmy Martin was not always easy to get along with. That could be why he was mostly shunned in Nashville, including the Grand Ole Opry. His inclusion on this record meant a lot to him. The success of this album meant getting that high lonesome voice out to a brand new audience.
Everybody seemed to get along with Mother Maybelle Carter. Her reputation as a nurturing, kind and loving, well, mother figure among musicians is well documented. So is her contribution to guitarists everywhere. Her work with the first family of country music, The Carter Family, continues to inspire and influence music throughout the world and across many genres. The Carter scratch—a way of playing the melody on the low strings of the acoustic guitar while strumming the rhythm sound deceptively simple—until you try it.
Mother Maybelle’s publishing company approved the use of one song for the project. That didn’t stop them from doing four. You just heard the beginning to Keep On the Suny Side. She also played, I’m Thinking Tonight Of My Blue Eyes…
When I hear sound Randy Scruugs singing harmony on that tune with Mother Maybelle I still get the chills. Not to mention Randy’s dad, Earl on banjo, McEuen on mandolin, Merle Travis on guitar… it’s just magic. Musical magic.
For the The Wildwood Flower, Maybelle played the autoharp rather than the guitar
And of course she led the title track, Will the Circle Be Unbroken, but I’ll save that for later…
As I’ve already mentioned, banjo pioneer Earl Scruggs was the first one John McEuen asked to join in on the fun and it was Earl, along with his wife, Louise who put the word out to the others and assembled this amazing cast. All that and he plays on 10 of the 38 tracks, sometimes on banjo, sometimes on guitar. Here he is on guitar, not banjo—that’s McEuen on my personal favorite version of the Carter Family’s You Are My Flower…
And here’s Earl tearin’ up on the banjo of Earl’s Break Down and The Flint Hill Special…
No doubt an an entire episode will soon be devoted to the work of Earl Scruggs and his partner Lester Flatt, so I will leave it there for now. In addition to reviving the careers of some of country music’s early stars, Will the Circle Be Unbroken also introduced a wider audience to some of Nashville’s talented sidemen. Fiddler Vassar Clements falls into that category…
Vassar was 43 in 1971 when Circle was recorded. He played with a variety of bluegrass outfits throughout his career. His struggles with alcohol almost ended his musical journey in the mid 1960s, but his work with both John Hartford and the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band in the early 70’s revitalized his career—not only as a sideman, but as a solo artist.
At one time, Roy Acuff was one of the most famous and beloved entertainers in America. He joined the Grand Ole Opry in 1938, and soon became one of the shows most popular acts. His relationship with the iconic National radio broadcast was on again off again throughout the next several decades. When he agreed to contribute to the Circle album in 1971, Acuff’s career was waning. He performed sporadically at the Opry and was considering retirement. Who would have ever thought that an outfit called the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band would help his career, at least briefly, resurge. Here’s Roy, along with his long time dobro playing pal Bashful Brother Oswald with Pins & Needles (in My Heart).
Will the Circle Be Unbroken was produced by John McEuen’s brother Bill. Bill McEuen managed the band early on and has a long association with comedian, actor, writer, and banjo player, Steve Martin. It was Bill who had the brilliant idea to record and include some of the studio chatter, Here’s John McEuen to comment on that…
John McEuen:
Yeah, my brother produced that album and he and I put things together that we made sure happened. Like there was a moment when we knew Merle Travis was gonna meet Doc Watson for the first time. And you can hear on the album, When Doc and Merle start talking, you could hear me coming in the way going, excuse me, Merle, Uh, hang on a second because I have to push the microphone over in front of him. You know, he was like, he's way over here. Like yeah, doc I'm I'm going, hang on Merle. Just a minute. Yeah, go ahead, just don't worry about the mic, I just had to put it there. We knew that was important. It was important to us. We didn't know it was gonna be so important to others.
Merle Travis was born in Muhlenberg County, Kentucky in 1917. His syncopated style of playing, based on ragtime and the handful of guitarists playing in that area of Kentucky, influenced thousands of guitar players throughout the decades, including, as you just heard, Doc Watson. Merle was also a prolific songwriter with credits including 16 Tons, Nine Pound Hammer, and Dark As A Dungeon…
That’s Merle Travis backed by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band with Junior Huskey on bass. Now, For more on Doc Watson I will refer you to episode 8 of this podcast, all about his 1965 recording, Doc Watson & Son. You could argue that Doc was at his best in 1971 when he recorded with the Dirt Band. The popularity of commercial folk music was in deep decline at this time, so Doc’s performances on Circle went a long way in reviving his performance career as well.His warm and humble presence, as well as his expert musicianship can be heard and felt throughout the entire project…
The second to the last track on Will the Circle Be Unbroken assembles the entire cast of characters to sing and play the popular Carter Family tune for which the record was named. It is the perfect musical metaphor for this union of musicians from several generations, coming together for the sake of the song. In 1971, it was visual and audible proof of an unbroken Circle…
But why didn’t the record end there? Wouldn’t that be the obvious conclusion? Randy Scruggs, the 18 year old son of banjo pioneer Earl, picks up the guitar and quietly plays an instrumental of Both Sides Now, a song Joni Mitchell wrote just five years prior to the Circle sessions. The Baton has been passed.
My special guest for this episode is Joe Newberry. Banjo player, guitar player, skilled teacher and songwriter, Newberry grew up in Missouri surrounded by a family of musicians and dancers before moving to North Carolina where he has become a staple in that rich, musical landscape. Along with regular performances on public radio’s A prairie Home Companion, Joe regularly collaborates with mandolin master Mike Compton, as well as the accomplished Canadian fiddler and step dancer, April Verch. Joe’s encyclopedic knowledge of roots music and his appreciation for how it builds community has made him a favorite at teaching camps all over North America. Of all the records he could have chosen, he picked Will the Circle Be Unbroken by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. Let’s find out why…
I first came across the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's Will the Circle Be Unbroken album by stealing it from my sister. She brought it into the house and she would play it on our little turntable. It immediately caught my ear. I would sneak in and I would get it. And I, I had a little tiny record player in my room and I'd put my headphones on and I'd spin it over and over and over again. My family is a singing family from the Ozarks. And so that music resonated with me. And then my mother grew up with Porter Wagner. They were old friends and so four o'clock on Saturday afternoon was sort of a sacred time in the Newberry household. We, we didn't do anything except, you know, come in from playing outside and sit down and watch Porter, and at that time, with, with Dolly before that, Miss Norma.
I was familiar with Roy Acuff. I was familiar with Merle Travis. Vasser Clements blew my mind. Doc Watson blew my mind. I was not familiar with either of them. And the, the Dirt Band, I think this was like their sixth or seventh studio album and I had heard some of their music. And, you know, one of the things about the Circle album is that it, it takes its place for me, and I think for a lot of people, in that cyclical discovery of roots and folk music—Starting with the the Edison wax cylinders, and going up into the twenties with the Skillet Lickers and, and then going into the fifties with the Weavers and the Almanac Singers, and then Flatt & Scruggs and Monroe. It seems like every 15 or 20 years, there's another album that just tears it up. The Circle album was certainly that in 71. Then you get into the eighties and you get, Hartford solo albums, in 2000 of course, O Brother Where Art Thou. And so the dirt band's album was a portal, for me, the Circle album was not only important for the mix of country music royalty that was on it, and the younger players like the Dirt Band, but also it was the inclusion of studio talk when they were making the album. Bill McEuen, the producer who was John McEuen’s brother, McEwen decided to leave in snippets of studio conversations.
It was a glimpse into a world that I wanted to be a part of. So when you hear Jimmy Martin talking to bill McEuen and Jimmy Martin says, ‘uh, bill,’ and you hear you hear Bill go, ‘Yeah.’ ‘Uh, bill, get all the frogs outta my voice. I see a Decca man standing back there.’ That just blew my young mind. Now that I, know the significance. Back then I just thought it was a cool thing to say. The significance of seeing a Decca man— Decca was the label and you wanted to be on. ‘Bill, get all the frogs outta my voice. I see a de man standing back there.’
Vassar Clements. He was the prototypical studio player, Played on a lot of stuff, but then started working with Hartford in the early seventies. Vassar played what he heard. And there's a great exchange in Orange Blossom, Special where somebody says, ‘I love that part. What, what you did in that one part of Orange Blossom Special, and Vassar goes, ‘oh, that ain't nothing but a little bit of Dragnet. And you hear in the break, it's like (hums Dragnet)
The dirt band had an idea about putting this music out in front of people, but also putting it in into context. And so, very rightly, early on disc one, Keep On the Sunny Side, uh, from the Carter Family and You Are My Flower, it's Earl Scruggs playing guitar. You know, I loved Earl Scruggs banjo playing, of course, but when he would play guitar, he was so influenced by Maybelle. I dropped the needle on that cut about a thousand times trying to get it just right.
That version of, uh, Honky Tonkin, the Hank Williams song with with the Dirt Band singing the lead, it’s one of those things that, you can tell these guys loved this stuff and probably played it in green rooms or just hanging out. It's probably how this started is that they just loved all of this music and they started playing it. And then they had the idea—‘well, let's bring in some of the people who we listened to and see if they'd play with us.’ I wish that Monroe had been on this project. I think he just thought this is not where I want my music— and that's how he would phrase it—It’s not where I want my music to be.
I look at music as a wall of time, like Mr. Monroe and Peter Rowan wrote. I’m consistently knocked out by the ability of young players, the facility with which they play—they’re deep listening. I listen to folks like, Jake blount, young man who plays banjo and fiddle and draws from his own African American heritage. I'm thinking about women who are just playing so brilliantly like Molly Tuttle. I'm thinking about Billy Strings who takes guff from folks who think he's not traditional enough, he's playing what he wants. When he chooses to play bluegrass or do traditional music, he’s playing as close to the source as he can.
And so I don't know what's going to be the next thing that gets in people's bones, but I know it that it's coming. I know that there is something that is going to capture people's imagination and then, once it does, some people will just take that music at face value and say, that sounds great. But other people, other people will say, I want to hear what these folks were listening to and they'll start going back, and then they'll discover, they’ll discover, Uncle Dave Macon and they'll discover the Mississippi Sheiks and the Skillet Lickers…all of these great players. They'll discover Jimmy Skinner.
Well, can I give you my late friend Clyde Johnson's radio sign off, cuz it's a good one. I wish that he was still around. He was a great guy and he was actually, he lived in Mount Airy and he would MC the contest at Mount Airy and he loved seeing all of these young players come in and…he took delight in, in how irreverent we were. You know, a bunch of 20 somethings thinking that we invented all this stuff. And Clyde, on his radio show, but also whenever he'd appear live, he would say, ‘Well, until we see you again, I'll just say goodbye, good luck, and God bless you, and don't worry too often much about nothing cuz everything won't never be allright no how.
My thanks to Joe Newberry for popping in and giving us his thoughts on this iconic album. You really have to see Joe live. You can find his schedule and a lot more information at joenewberry.biz. My thanks again to my colleague and friend Jim Bloom for the use of his interview with John McCeuen.